toe/in toe/out

[COBRAGAR]

any idea on how to adjust toe-in/out on these cars .took the car to an alignment shop and the gentleman said it was very labor intense. any ideas how to do this any easier .thanks garcia guys help me here

[Jerry Cowing]

Find another alignment shop. When they start off saying words like that, bend over because they're getting ready to stick you. There was an article in Consumer Reports about businesses that start off with sentences like you were given. They said to avoid them like the plague - to paraphrase a little. :-)

I went to one local shop in my area and he wanted over $200 to accomplish the alignment. Went to another shop and had it done for $73.09 which included tax.

[COBRAGAR]

I Was Talking About The Rear Tires . I Understand What You SAID Jerry Thanks.

[eliminator]

The guy dosen't know what he is talking about.

The front is a no brainer for any good alignment shop, rack and pinion steering must be adjusted equally on both sides to get the end result, you just cant do one side.

On the rear, thats why you have the two trailing arms that are adjustable with two adjustments per bar, turning them one direction shortens the bar moving toward toe out, turning them the other way lengthens the bar moving toward toe-in. Once adjusted there is a 7/8" lock nut.

Now there is an adjustment on the Jag Rear end itself that can be spaced to square up the rear end, that would require the safety wire to come off and the addition of spacers and it is time cosuming and would be expensive. I have never seen a Unique that requires the latter adjustment.

Hope this helps.

I have good the old school tools and do all of mine in the garage, a little more difficult but it's right on the money!

[Jerry Cowing]

I agree with eliminator. Adjusting toe on the rear is very easy as eliminator explained - just another example of why to avoid the alignment shop you went to.

To accomplish a full rearend alignment (toe & camber) on a jag rearend is a little more labor intensive. To adjust camber, you'll have to jack up the rear and unbolt the axle from the brake disk. Then you'll have to tip the top of the tire out to disengage the axle from the brake disk. Then you place these special jag 4-bolt-hole spacers between the axle and brake disk. Some folks use the standard u-shims like you use to align the front suspension, but that is not engineering sound and you won't have the same coeficient of friction between the axle and brake disk using u-shims as you would have using the correct larger jag shims. Using u-shims could cause the axle to shear away from the brake disk under hard acceleration. You may have to go through this procedure several times to get the alignment correct. I had to remove my axles on both sides about three times to get the camber and toe correct and added about 5 jag shims on each side. You'll have to readjust toe each time you adjust the camber. Now it accelerates in a straight line during a burnout. Use the alignment numbers in Unique's assembly guide.

Important: make sure the alignment shop pulls down on the rearend very hard so the rear shocks/springs compress correctly after it has been jacked up. If they don't re-set the weight on the rear, you'll never get a good adjustment.

[eliminator]

We have posted them here before. I WOULD NOT use the specifications in the Unique Manual. These other spec's have been proven to work better.

[COBRAGAR]

Rick.Jerry,and Alan The Mistake Was On My Part. At The Alignment Shop I Was Under The Impression Not To Use The Trailing Arm To Adjust Toe/in/toe/out . As Far As All The Measurement I Got From The Forum On The Alignment He Agreed And Said That What He Uses Most Of The Time For Car Of This Type Wish He Has Done In The Past But Not Using The Jag Rear End . I've Spoken To Him Again And He Said NO Problem To Bring The Car Back And He Would WORK With THE Car To Bring To The Specs That I Mentioned . Am Also Going For 4 Wheel Highspeed Balance Wheels And Tires On The Car .again Thanks To All For The Info.

[Jerry Cowing]

eliminator, you said Unique's specifications are no good and then you threw out a vague reference that the correct specs exist somewhere. I did a search on this site and couldn't find any alignment specs. Maybe they were erased when the web site was changed. Do you have the numbers you think are correct for a 427 big block with standard springs/carerras?

[ralphscott]

Jer here you go I posted these back in Oct. 2004


"mine is steady and runs true. I run less air pressure 24/26 cold f/r. FRONT: L&R front camber 0.5 degrees negative. L&R front caster left 2-1/4 degrees positive; right 2-1/2 degrees postive. L&R front toe-in 1/32"
Front cross caster 0 degrees. Front total toe-in 1/16". REAR: L&R rear camber 0.5 degrees negative. L&R rear toe-in 1/32" (could run zero) Rear total toe-in 1/16" (could run zero) Rear thrust angle ideal 0 degrees but could run 15 degrees negative to 15 degrees positive. I also have a 428 with alum heads water pump and intake so it is about the weight of a stock 351W. I got the specifics of my set-up from the guy that does ours in Knoxville. Seems to work but it takes him 2-3 hours for him to do the initial setup, subsequent alignments are not as time consuming.

Ralph

[Jerry Cowing]

Rick, Ralph,

What do you guys think about these numbers. I raced with this setup at Gainesville and Sebring and it handled well as far as I could tell. During the skid pad at Gainesville, we measured the tire temps and it indicated I needed more negative camber in the left front and left rear, but the right side was good. My FE has iron heads so my engine weights about 50 pounds more than your aluminum heads. I have the stock chromed coilover springs and careera shocks.

http://www.uniquecobra.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=355&catid=newimages

[ralphscott]

Wow Jer when did you trade for a Masda Miata ;-)

Ralph

[Naumoff]

Wow Jer when did you trade for a Masda Miata ;-)

Ralph
Ralph I was thinking the same thing.

here is some specs from an SCCA champ.


Not sure what you guy's are trying to accompolish.....

Alignment is basic and straight forward......

1st you set the Castor (4-5*degree's) ....then Camber (-.5 to -1*degree)......then toe (1/16" in on each side.....total = 1/8" total toe-In)........

In the rear you need more Toe-in because the geometry of the rear trailing and lower control arms.....

If you are going to put the car on a track ...then you use more neg camber depending on the type of tire you are using.....

And some from Toms Motorsports in Vegas;

LEFT FRONT:
TIRES: GOODYEAR EAGLE SPECIAL 26.5" X 8" X 15" 28 LBS. 82.3125" Circ.
RIDE HEIGHT: 4.0"
CAMBER: NEG. 0.625 deg.
CASTER: POS. 3.25 deg.
TOE: OUT 0.0625"
SHOCKS: PRO SHOCKS 10.00"
SPRINGS: HYPER COIL
600 lbs.
TOP LINK: 1 AND A HALF TURNS OUT

RIGHT FRONT
TIRES: GOODYEAR EAGLE SPECIAL 26.5" X 8" X 15" 28 LBS. 82.3125" Circ.
RIDE HEIGHT: 4.0"
CAMBER: NEG. 0.625 deg.
CASTER: POS. 3.25 deg.
TOE: OUT 0.0625"
SHOCKS: PRO SHOCKS 10.00"
SPRINGS: HYPER COIL
600 lbs.
TOP LINK: 1 TURN OUT

LEFT WHEEL BASE: 89.75"

LEFT REAR REAR:
TIRES: GOODYEAR EAGLE SPECIAL 26.5 X 10.5 X 15" 28 LBS 85" Circ.
RIDE HEIGHT: 5.625"
CAMBER: NEG.0.50 deg.
TOE: IN 0.0625"
SHOCKS: PRO SHOCKS 10.00"
SPRINGS: HYPER COIL
450 lbs.
TOP LINK: 1 TURN OUT

RIGHT REAR:
TIRES: GOODYEAR EAGLE SPECIAL 26.5 X 10.5 X 15" 28 LBS 85" Circ.
RIDE HEIGHT: 5.625"
CAMBER: NEG. 0.50 deg.
TOE: IN 0.0625"
SHOCKS: PRO SHOCKS 10.00"
SPRINGS: HYPER COIL
450 lbs.
TOP LINK: HALF TURN OUT
RIGHT WHEEL BASE 89.875"

Hope this helps.