OIL CONSUMPTION

[gasman]

I've logged a little over 350 miles in the six weeks I've had my car. As most of you know, bought it complete with 2000 miles on it. The car runs [u]incredible</u>, no visible signs of smoke normally associated with oil consumption. I've had the car on the lift several times and have corrected any and all oil leaks. I had a small pan leak and a small oil cooler leak. My car has a Southern Automotive FE 427 and seems to use a lot of oil. For example, yesterday, went on a 100 mile cruise with the stick showing full, this morning showing 2 quarts low. Is this normal? Please tell me it is.

Steve Foushee

[clayfoushee]

Steve,

Don't worry too much, with your Canton oil pan and remote oil filter, cooler set-up, the dip stick is not always not reliable, until you calibrate it after an oil change. You've got so much oil in the lines and remote cooler, that unless you replicate the same conditions everytime you check the oil, it may vary some. Just keep an eye on it. They do use some oil, although that's a little much unless you're at redline the whole time.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[pgermond]

Your brother is correct, the reading on the dipstick could be fibbing to you, and you won't know that until you change the oil. I have an SA FE with the Canton pan, remote oil cooler and lines etc. and use 9 quarts on an oil change.

Now, if you have added 2 quarts after your 100 mi cruise and it's not burning or leaking you might have a problem w/too much in the system. Might be time for an oil change to check things out.

If you truly are using 2 qts every 100 mi, you had better hire an oil barge to follow you on those long trips [:P]


Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[eliminator]

Let me give you guy's some hard learned info on the SA engines. If you don't know I have a 427 side-oiler built by SA. They have PCV valves in them that go to the vacuum port on the rear carburetor base plate. That port is alive and sucking vaccum any time your not ideling. It's also sucking oil in from the valve cover, just pull the hose off after a ride and see how much oil comes out. Now what I have done is put a rear breather on, snorkle type that goes on the rear of the intake and my valve covers have a breather in each one since in dosn't have an oil filler on the Edelbrock Performer intake #7105. My engine would consume 1/2 - 1 qt. oil on a 100 mile cruise depending on how hard I would run it. After disconnecting my PCV and calibrating my dip stick to get the oil capacity right I drove 75 miles yesterday, some heavy traffic some crusing, 82 degree weather, 190-195 water temperature and didn't consume any oil, go figure. Now PCV valves are good and bad, the evacuate pressure in the crank case so you will have fewer or no oil leaks (good), they also suck up oil and cude up the intake valves (bad). In taking to Butch Capps (engine builder and Cobra owner) he likes the FE's with no PCV valves and adequate breather's at least 2 ea. If you had an oil filler tube with it's breather and the snorkel breather that would work. If not your going to have to have valve covers with breathers. If you have a solid valve cover you can drill a breather hole and use a special baffled rubber grommet that holds a breather. If anyone is intrested I have done that and can explain further. So to make a long story short, this is the reason for oil consumption, and plus everyone with a Canton Pan is running the engine with too much oil if they havn't calibrated the dip stick . We covered this in another thread, so do a seach on Canton Oil Pans and it will show up.

Rick

[Brent]

Rick,

You and I have the same set-up. I have a rear breather on the intake and a K&N filter on both valve covers. No oil consumption and no leaks.

Brent

[clayfoushee]

Rick,

I have the same engine config. and the same breather and filters on both covers. Same as Brent, little noticeable consumption after putting about 1000 mi. on the new engine. It did burn about a qt. per 100 miles when breaking in.

Also, I went back and looked at that old thread on Canton Oil Pans. You had 2 posts in there, and I may have misunderstood what you meant to say, but in one you said you ran 9.5 qts. and the other said about 8 qts. You also said many of us were running too much oii. Could you clarify?

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[eliminator]

OK to clarify the OIL Capacity with a Canton Road Race or High Capacity Pan, advertised as 8 quarts. That is an 8 qt. system (Canton Tech Folks) not an 8 qt pan. Drain all the oil from the pan, 30 minutes minimum, go ahead and pull the filter so the pan will drain as much as possible. I actually beleive these engines will drain oil for 2 weeks if you want to wait that long. Now put in 7 measured quarts and wait 10-15 minutes for the oil to get to the pan. Now put your dipstick in and see where the oil levelis, this is your new FULL mark. Mark it and double check the mark, then file a new mark on the dipstick and this is now the new full mark. Put your new filter on and fill back to the new mark and your calibrated. The system capacity used by Canton refers to 7 quarts in the pan and 1 quart in the filter, equals 8 quart system not pan capacity.

Rick

[clayfoushee]

Rick,

I got that, but I was also accounting for the remote lines, and lines to cooler, and the cooler itself. In a previous post, on the old "Canton Oil Pan" thread, you said at one point you ran 9.5 qts. That's what I was checking on. Did you change your mind based upon later research?

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[eliminator]

Clay,

Once you get the magic NEW MARK the rest is relative. The pan capacity will be at 7 quarts but with the remote oil filter, cooler and lines its probably going to be somewhere around 8 1/2 qt's total capacity. Example: new calibration is complete and you spin on a new filter and its empty. You fire up the engine and the filter fills up and the oil lines and cooler fill up and the system has been filled from the pan. Now you check the dip stick and it's 1 -1 1/2 quarts low, you bring it up to your calibrated mark and you have your 7 quarts in the pan (required) and the rest of the system is full of oil. And yes, after later research and talking to the Canton Tech People I found the correct way to establish the full mark on the dipstick.

Rick

[clayfoushee]

Thanks Rick, that's what I did some time ago. I also made a new mark on the dip stick, but I think I ended up adding 9 qts. Just rechecking.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Tony Radford]

Steve, I'm in a similar situation. I've done an extensive amount of polling on a number of Ford and hot related forums during the course of the last six months or so. You probably do have a consumption problem. There is a possibility that your rings have not fully seated yet. I thought that I could have a PCV valve problem as my engine also produces a substantial amount of vacuum. I removed the carb tube and replaced it with a second valve cover breather. No effect. I feel pretty confident that I have a bad valve guide seal. My engine shows no signs of oil consumption, but I'm consuming a quart per 100 miles and I have over 3,000 miles on the motor. One of the local guys has the same configuration as mine and he consumes no oil. I'm running the same Canton pan, oil filter adapter, oil cooler etc. that I had on my previous Windsor and it consumed no oil for 8,500 miles. Two quarts in 100 miles as way too much oil. I'm waiting on my slot to run it back to Southern for some diagnostics. If I were you, I would put another few hundred miles on the engine on the slim chance that the rings have not fully seated. See you in two weeks.

427SC, Torch Red / white stripes
427 Windsor Stroker from Southern Automotive
Delicious example of Beauty + Power.

[gasman]

Tony,

I think you might be right. I'm hoping that as I log road miles the rings might seat better and eliminate what appears to be a consumption problem. John Haynie read my thread and commented that he noticed a puff of white smoke as I was backing off the throttle. Based on what Rick said, about PCV hose suction. It would seem to make sense that the suction would be greater after acceleration. Rick, we talked about the rear intake breather when you sent me a picture of your motor. I do not recall where you told me I could get that part. My valve covers have one breather that is also the oil fill cap. PCV suction hose is on the same valve cover. The other valve cover is solid. If I add another breather on the fire wall side of the intake, should I eliminate the PCV suction line?

Steve Foushee

[pgermond]

Rick,

Now you have me thinking about sucking all that crap down the intake valves. Where did you get your goose neck for the intake manifold (I've seen them, but I can't remember where)? The intake has a breather on the intake and PVC on the passenger side valve cover (standard SA setup). Recommendations? Thanks!


http://www.uniquecobra.com/uploaded/pgermond/6 Engine.JPG

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[eliminator]

One source is DSC Motorsport, Anza, CA. 909-7639765, Dennis Carrico.
Another is Tony Branda, think it's under Branda Performance. I will get some other info and post.
Phil your engine has a breather on the intake, never have seen one like that but it should be OK, if you put a breather on the valve cover where the PCV valve is located you could do away with the PCV system.
Steve yours is already set up for a snorkle breather so I would add it even if you stay with the PCV system, can't hurt. The breather on the intake does a better job than the valve cover breather anyay. You need to calibrate the dipstick first of all as you may be over filling
by 1 to 1 1/2 quarts.

Rickhttp://www.uniquecobra.com/uploaded/eliminator/Cobra4273.jpg

[Tony Radford]

My original Windsor had no PCV valve, but had a breather on the passenger side valve cover like the driver's side. I couldn't keep a rear main seal in the motor to save my life. I was running the best seal and the thin aluminum sleeve over the end of the crank, but no matter what I did, it would start leaking in a day or two. I feel like the PCV valve putting negative pressure on the guts maybe helps in this area. In any event, I feel better with the valve in place than without it. Besides, removing it had absolutely no effect on my consumption problem. She goes into the shop Monday, so hopefully I will learn the true culprit.

427SC, Torch Red / white stripes
427 Windsor Stroker from Southern Automotive
Delicious example of Beauty + Power.

[eliminator]

I have found an item that will be great for the people running a PCV valve, this will eliminate the PCV valve sucking up all the oil. It's a PCV Grommet with Integral Baffle made by Moroso, p/n 68772, made to replace the grommet you are now using in your valve cover. Has 3/4" opening for the pcv valve. What this does is baffle the opening so your pcv valve is sucking air not oil. About 2 or 3 bucks. Picture posted.

Rickhttp://www.uniquecobra.com/uploaded/eliminator/pn 68772.jpg

[gasman]

Rick, I ordered the breather from finish line today. It will be here in four days. I'm going to install the PCV baffle as soon as I can find one. Hopefully, after calibrating the oil pan to seven quarts, I will not have the problem once feared. At any rate, I can't thank you enough for your investment of time in helping me with my problems. You are a friend indeed! Can't wait to meet you in AL. at HC.

Steve Foushee

[eliminator]

Steve,

Good deal, you are on track to fix the problem I am sure.

Rick

[gasman]

Rick, Installed the Moroso PCV gromet and the Finish line breather today. My EC almost looks as good as yours. Thanks again for the advice.

Steve Foushee

[gasman]

Rick, after installing the snorkle breather and the pcv baffle gromet, the idle dropped from 850 to 500. Does that make sense? Is there a relationship between these parts and the idle adjustment?

Steve Foushee

[Tony Radford]

Steve, you will need to adjust you idle up to compensate. I had to do the same thing. If you make the conversion and it doesn't fix the problem, you should probably change it back. My problem was fixed last week. The problem was that my BG carb was running so rich, it washed the oil off the cylinder walls and destroyed the rings. Even with 3,000 miles on the motor, the rings were completely worn down. After honing the cylinders, replacing the rings and rejetting the carb, problem solved. I didn't realize that running rich could be so destructive.

427SC, Torch Red / white stripes
427 Windsor Stroker from Southern Automotive
Delicious example of Beauty + Power.

[gasman]

Tony, I'm fearing the same solution. I replaced my carburetor a few weeks back, you recall it was running way too rich. I installed the PCV gromet baffle and the rear manifold breather. After the engine comes up to operating temperature if you rev the engine, you can see a slight trace of oil smoke as it is backing off. I haven't calabrated my oil pan to determine if the crank case is overfilled, I'm doing that Wednesday morning. Running rich is very bad thing, it is just like pouring acid in your motor.

Steve Foushee

[Tony Radford]

Steve, one thing I noticed was that following an oil change, as soon as I fired it up and let it run a minute, the oil turned inky black almost immediately. Now that it's fixed, I can run the pi$$ out of it for a hundred miles or so and the oil is still clear. I did a car show down in Hampton Saturday with Bill, Susan and John from SA (100-120 miles round trip), did a serious burn out leaving the show (I had to with Bill watching) and I've had no measurable consumption AND the oil is still clear. A leak down test indicated I had 10-12% leakage past the rings prior to tear down.

427SC, Torch Red / white stripes
427 Windsor Stroker from Southern Automotive
Delicious example of Beauty + Power.

[gasman]

Tony, My oil was changed 400 miles ago. As stated early on, I've lost count how many quarts I've added in those miles, but it is at least 5. I'm going to calibrate the dip stick tonight instead of waiting until Wednesday. If I'm overfilling the pan, the loss may be attributed to that. However, the color of my oil is inky black as you discribe yours was. Did SA do your honing and ring replacment? Maybe I need to come back through McDonough after Homecoming. Something tells me there might be a few specialist taking a look at my ride in a few days.

Steve Foushee

[Tony Radford]

I was in touch with Bill and Lewis the whole time. Bill wanted to supply a Holly carb, but I insisted on a BG, which was set up by Barry Grant. I just had SA bolt it on. I knew it was running rich, but I was thinking that since the engine was brand new, the rings might just need to seat. We had no idea it was jetted as high as it was since the carb came from BG already configured specifically for my application (we thought). Lewis and John yanked the pistons and honed the block while it was still in the car. They had it done in a day and a half. And the half was troubleshooting i.e. leakdown test.

427SC, Torch Red / white stripes
427 Windsor Stroker from Southern Automotive
Delicious example of Beauty + Power.

[eliminator]

Damn Tony, you must have looked like a Diesel running up and down the road if it was that bad:(. BG thinks everbody is going Drag Racing with their carburetors. I have adjusted several on Cobra's, first thing is the float level, way to high. Must have been jetted for a Big Block 427!:D:D:D

Rick

[Brent]

WOW, all these carb problems.

You guys need to get a set of Webers :D:D

It sounds like those Holleys are hard to adjust and get syncronized. It's no wonder everybody is scared of them :D:D:D:D:D


Brent

[rdorman]

Blocking the heat crossover, manifold heat, can also accelorate ring where because of the fuel issue. But this is the first time I have ever heard of it being that bad! Did the oil smell like fuel?
Rick

[Tony Radford]

There were no indications I was burning oil other than that fact that I had to add it everytime I went for a spin. The fuel rich condition was obvious, though it didn't impair the engine performance. I thought everything was normal performance-wise until the problem was fixed, 10% compression increase, no oil in the compression chamber and overdue valve adjustment. I almost killed myself when I hammered it for the first time after picking her up. Yeeeehawwww!

427SC, Torch Red / white stripes
427 Windsor Stroker from Southern Automotive
Delicious example of Beauty + Power.

[gasman]

Calibrated the dip stick to 7 quarts in the Canton pan. Lo and behold, I've been overfilling the pan by 1 and 1/2 quarts. We will see what happens this weekend after the oil change, but I think my problem and Tony's are one and the same.

Steve Foushee

[gasman]

Remember this old thread? The good news is we found the problem. The bad news is, it is exactly what I thought...the rings are bad. The motor comes out tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how it does on the dyno after the rebuild. It produced 306 HP at the rear wheels. When they backed off the throttle they had to leave the shop until the burning oil cleared the shop. :(

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[eliminator]

Who is doing the re-build??

Rick
#4279405

[jhaynie]

Damn, thats still about 60hp more than my measley little engine.[V] I need a new one:D
JOhn

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[brfutbrian]

steve, when you said rebuild, i hope you meant ring job. it would take some good explaining why a motor would need a rebuild after only a few thousand miles, that ran fine other than the oil leakage problem past the rings. later, brian

[gasman]

Rick, Pete Beck builds race engines here in Augusta. Beck Machine is the name of his shop. I had thought about using Billy Vaughn at Carolina Machine. I have no way of knowing if one is better than the other. Beck is close enough that I can go by and monitor the progress. Plus if anything happened to the motor afterward, it would be easier to use a local guy. I'm going to change the heads, water pump at the same time and add roller rockers. Can you suggest any other improvements?

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[Brent]

Steve, It sounds like you are in good hands. If the cam and carb are correct you should see some 380-410 RWHP numbers with no problem.

What oil pan do you have now ? Do you have a windage tray ? Does your motor have a billet or chromemoly oil pump driveshaft?

Brent

[eliminator]

Get with Butch Capps on your Roller Rockers and other valve train items.You also need billet stands and end stands plus billet steel rocker shafts. My whole assembly came from Precision Oil Pumps in California. Butch stocks the stuff locally. I know Brent is using their stuff too. I use their blueprinted oil pump, billet oil pump drive, and pushrods too, plus billet spacers instead of springs on the rocker shaft.

Rick
#4279405

[gasman]

You know, you just can't hide money.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[clayfoushee]

Wow Steve, that poor motor must have had no compression to speak of. Figuring 18-20% horsepower loss to the drivetrain, that puppy's at least 125HP short of where it should be, maybe more.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[gasman]

Clay, Butch Capps suggested we examine the intake gasket to make sure it was intact and not sucking oil from the crankcase. It was fine. The compression check revealed 7 cylinders at 65 lbs. and one cylinder at 150 lbs. From the compression check they are thinking the motor has broken rings, which means we probably have to bore it.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[ralphscott]

Steve, Valve guides? Sorry for your difficulties. We do have a mosquito problem in TN ....just kidding:D

Ralph

[brfutbrian]

steve, that motor must have shook like crazy with only one good cyl. how bad was your gas milage? my condolences. later, brian

[gasman]

Thanks Brian! Good question, but I have no previous experience with BB motors and don't really know what kind of mileage I should have been getting. I'm not one to monitor that kind of thing anyway. If you forced me to guess, it was probably 7-8 MPG. This motor has lots of power, just smokes like there is no tomorrow. To be honest, I think the seller had one up on me. He just didn't know that I could care less. I love my car.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[brfutbrian]

steve, i know just what you mean, but it still sucks. hopefully you wont have to bore it. if its been bored previously, depending on what its bored to, you may not be able to bore it again. im sure youll fill us in on the damage report after its apart. later, brian

[clayfoushee]

Steve, Brian, raises a very good point. Do you know what it's currently bored over? Most people say FE's get iffy above .030. Mine's currently at .022 over and has maybe one more rebuild if I'm lucky.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[gasman]

Clay, We will know the answer soon enough, the motor comes out today. The Southern Automotive build sheet doesn't say anything about being bored. I have called to ask, but I doubt their record keeping has that type of detail. Brent, the build sheet does say the motor has a windage tray but nothing about the oil pump drive shaft. Brian, thanks....keep you fingers crossed on the bore.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[Brent]

Steve the oil pump shaft is only about 25.00 and available from ARP. It is a quick engine killer if it breaks.

Brent

[gasman]

Update. I called Bill Parham to find out if this block had ever been bored. Bill wanted the whole story, after hearing, he was quite insistant that this motor belonged in his shop for repair and he would cover it under warrenty.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[clayfoushee]

Great Gasman........that's the way it should be!

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[jhaynie]

Boy that's great news. I'm thinking you should have tried this first!

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[KrAzEcJ]

Glad to hear that for you Steve. After reading this topic I'm worried about mine. As far as carbureration I was running a Holley 4150 doublepumper 750cfm on my 460 but its inadequate top-in. By using
the formula for figuring cfm at 100% I should be using a 966cfm but 100% is for racing and street use drops in the 90% range. So I was thinking of putting a Demon 850 cfm carb on my setup but I've read Demons setup is rich right out of the box. Any comments or idea's or experences good or bad with your carb setups?

[clayfoushee]

CJ, I'm running a Holley 750 cfm (on a 427SO stroked to 454) with no issues in over 4K miles. Haven't even touched it and the mixture is dead on, as is the idle. From all of my reading, many Cobra types with BB engines tend to overcarb with the "mo is betta" notion, but 850 is probably not too much of a stretch for that 460.

Starting with the previous owner, Steve's motor was running so rich for so long, the rings perhaps never had a chance to seat properly.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[brfutbrian]

steve, bill is beyond a doubt, the man! extending a warranty to a second owner of one of his motors. hands down, hes the man! im just blown away! later , brian

[gasman]

CJ, do an advanced search on "Update on Gasman's ride". Eliminator helped solve my carburator problem but Clay is right, the damage was already done. I really like the carburetor on my car. The Quick Fuel Technology shop is good about wanting to know everything there is to know about your motor before they ship a carburetor. And it will be perfect for your motor right out of the box with very little tweaking. Tony had a Demon carburetor on his car and had the same running rich damage problem I have. Brent has a Demon on his new motor and knowing Brent, he wouldn't have picked Demon without a real good reason.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[Brent]

Steve you can't really go wrong with Bill's offer. It won't cost you anything except time and labor to remove and install. (You wanted to work on it)

The previous owner may have got the motor really hot and cooked the rings out of it. He may have played with the carb and filled the motor with fuel and washed the rings out of it. The motor may be fine and just need R&B. Fact is, Bill is going WAY past the call of duty to do this. I remember reading how happy you were and how the motor was "strong" when you got it. I think the parts are fine it just needs to be "fresh". When you get 8 cyl. pumping 150 lbs. I think you will fill your shorts again.

Brent

[ralphscott]

Gotta Love a man that stands behind his work!! That a way Bill!!:D
Ralph

[ralphscott]

Ditto Brent on the ARP oil pump drive shaft. That is what I am running and I need it with the oil pressure I am running. I worry now about the roll pin in the gear drive. Butch Capps told me how to strenghten it by using two one inside the other to reduce the possibility of crushing the roll pin.

Ralph

[clayfoushee]

Hey Brent....you just reminded my of something. Steve, remember when you got the car, you told me the fans weren't working........that would have cooked it, if the previous owner didn't realize it.

Brent and Ralph....you've got me thinking....is that oil pump drive shaft replaceable without taking everything apart. I have no clue what's in there, but always running 65-70lbs pressure, and never lower than 45, even at hot, idle.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[gasman]

Clay, true the fans were not operational, but, the motor never got hot (above 190) before the puke tank ruptured. Even then, it never went above 210. Also, this thing has used an inordinate amount of oil from day one.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[clayfoushee]

Yeah, Steve, but you don't know what it got up to, when the previous owner had it. If they weren't operational when you got, it's likely they weren't for awhile before that. It's all about whether he was idling with it in stop and go traffic. No problem at cruise without fans.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[ralphscott]

Clay, I run the same oil PSI you are running. The oil pump drive shaft is easy to replace. Check your timing before you pull the distributor, write the number down. Then all you have to do is pull the distributor. Rotate the engine so that the rotor is over the #1 wire, mark the side of the distributor and put a line on the intake. All this is to make sure the distributor goes back in in the same place it was before it was taken out. (Kinda important if you want it to start) Once you are satisfied that you have got marks on so they won't wipe off accidently then undo the hold down bracket and pull the distributor up and out. Once you have completed the process and got the distributor back in, aligned and all that stuff then check your timing and reset if required. [:D}

Ralph

[KrAzEcJ]

Do you guys think I'l be ok with my 460 with just the twin fans? I did run this motor for a short while and then it was set up with a 18" mech fan and it ran at a perfect temp even sitting in bad traffic. Now its going to be in a tighter engine compartment and was wondering. I did notice over at CC while I was browsing pictures that a few folks are running a extra fan (pulling) on the opposite side of radiator from the 2 infront. Good idea or overkill?

[Brent]

Clay,

If the pump shaft was not tinkered with it will have a metal clip placed on the distributor end of the shaft that keeps the shaft from falling out when you flip the motor upside down on a stand and also keeps the shaft from sticking to the distributor and comming loose from the oil pump when you pull the dist. This clip will keep you from from easily changing the shaft through the top of the motor. The shaft is held in place by the oil pump. If you want to replace this you will need to pull the pan and the pump to install. The good news is you can leave the dist. in the motor and change the shaft from the bottom.

Winter project maybe?

Brent

Brent

[clayfoushee]

Thanks Brent and Ralph and definitely a winter project

CJ, there's no real consensus on the need for an additional puller fan, but it can't hurt. Several have done it here. I haven't and been completely OK even in very hot weather with lengthy idle times. Here's a link to the discussion here, as well as pictures:

http://www.uniquecobra.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=489&SearchTerms=puller,fan

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Brent]

CJ,

It is a matter of bore, compression, valve overlap,metal or alum engine parts, and timing. I ran a 385 series 472ci. (.060 over) 10-1, 292 comp cam, with a C-6 in a Mach 1 mustang and was OK with just a puller fan on an aluminum radiator.
In a Cobra "overkill" is standard equipment.

Brent

[KrAzEcJ]

Clay, while I was tearing down my motor I looked at the stock shaft and it no longer had sharp, clean edges it was slightly rounded and it had alot of more slop in it. With a high volume pump its cheap insurance to get a heavy duty one. Did some reading up in my rebuild book and it said never reuse a oil pump shaft and thats their recommendation using a stock pump. The ARP shaft is twice as thick and its 190,000 tensil strength, it looks like a tree trunk instead of a tree limb when you compare the two.

Thanks for the link to Clay, I'm slowly making my way through all the past posts. Lots of good info and experiences. Makes for good reading.

[Tony Radford]

When the SA team pulled my pistons, the rings were worn away. It only took them a day or so as they left the engine in my car, dropped the pan and knocked the pistons out, honed the cylinders and put her back together with "the rings from hell" (Kryptonite). When I got her back, I went to the dyno shop for a super tune. I'm getting a bit over 400 ft/lbs RWT at a bit under 400 HP. More importantly, my fuel/air is 12ish flat accross the band. The tuning process added 35 ft/lbs. And no more oil consumption. Though the whole process was a bit of a distraction, I wouldn't change my Mighty Demon for anything. Any more power to the back end and I'd probably be dead. I HIGHLY recommend the dyno experience. That's the only way to get things really right. Allspeed is not that far from SA and they're really reasonable.

427SC, Torch Red / white stripes
427 Windsor Stroker from Southern Automotive
Delicious example of Beauty + Power.

[gasman]

My motor was out of the car before I talked to Bill. I'm upgrading a few things while I'm at it. Aluminum heads and water pump, and adding roller rockers. Bill said give him four weeks. There is a nice dyno here in Augusta. Our plan is to break the motor in on the dyno. Pulling the motor will give me room to work in the engine compartment while Bill performs his magic.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[ralphscott]

On the puller fan I put one in 'cause when I get into slow or stopped traffic my 428 gets too hot for my taste. Also changed my thermostat to a 150 as per Alan's suggestion together these mods have helped hugely. Proper timing also is a plus.

Ralph

[pgermond]

My new agent.................. eat your heart out Gasman ;)








http://www.uniquecobra.com/uploaded/pgermond/ROBERT_WUHL_1.jpg

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[gasman]

Make sure your fly is up when hanging around this guy. Hey that cigar looks familiar. Is that Bill's cigar?

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[pgermond]

[B)][8][xx(] ;)

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[gasman]

Just joking Phil ole bud. How is that handsome devil?

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[gasman]

Bill Parham tore down my motor today. Nothing was broken, all he found was very worn out rings. Should have the motor back toward the end of next week.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[Brent]

Great!!

See ya in Pigeon Forge.



Brent
4279401
Candy Apple Red/White
402 FE/Toploader/3.54

[gasman]

Brent, Pigeon Forge was high on my list. Unfortunately, the wife has other plans for me that weekend. I'm bummed, but I think it's called compromise, which is why I just celebrated my 21st anniversary.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[clayfoushee]

Great news Steve!

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (454-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[brfutbrian]

steve, excellent. i`ll bet theres a smile on your face. brian.

[pgermond]

Steve,

That has to be a load off your mind. Worn rings? How many miles on the motor?

Again, you have to be releaved that it is all it is and not............. [8]

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[ralphscott]

Steve, glad to hear that the engine is fixed, but sorry you will not be at Pigeon Forge. How many miles did you have on the rings?

Ralph

[clayfoushee]

Phil,

That car was running waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too rich for so long, all that gas just washed down the cylinders, and those rings never had a chance to seat. Steve did get that fixed early on with a new carb, but it was already too late. Once he had the carb changed the billowing black smoke became blue smoke, and it was pretty clear.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (454-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[gasman]

Ralph and Phil, The odometer reads 2700 miles on my car when the motor was pulled. Bill Parham said at the time of this build he was using low tension racing rings. Should have the motor back next week. Upgrades include, aluminum heads and water pump and roller rockers. It goes without saying new bearings and oil pump.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

Thanks Ralph, I wish I could be there too.

[ralphscott]

Steve, sounds like it should run like a dream. I have the Al heads, water pump, and intake from the git go. I'm curious as to if you notice a difference in handling going from cast iron to Al. Will you be coming up to Shades of the Past now that your car is running?

Ralph

[jhaynie]

Good news Steve. Look forward to seeing you back on the road.

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[gasman]

I guess we can now close this thread down. The motor has been put back in the car and it runs and looks incredible.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

PS: the morale of the story is, running rich....very bad thing!

[clayfoushee]

Running lean, also a very bad thing...........

CONGRATS!!![8D]

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (452.1-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD